When the chart has Food that meets the Owl (Indirect Seal), denotes my seniors controlling me, no freedom, do things without a sense of propriety, begins but never finishes, source of income or wealth comes and go, slanted facial features (meaning not good looking), the physique frail and tiny, cowardly and diffident, most of the things (he does) unsuccessful, counter and harm 6 relationships, when young counters mother, after grown hurt the wife.
赋云：倒食者，名为偏印，号曰枭神，值身旺而财丰福厚，遇刑煞则寿夭身贫，财星若见，披星带月不停留，煞星若生，驰担息肩无定日，身弱重逢偏印，须愁颜子之伤，正食若遇枭神，未免韩信之祸，始遇者精神慵懒，重犯者容貌欹斜。
The Odes says: Pouring Food, is named as Indirect Seal, called Owl God, when Self is prosperous denotes abundance of wealth and blessings, meeting punishment and devil denotes short life or lowly status, seeing wealth denotes working ceaselessly night and day without stopping, if it is engendered by Devil, denote laborious life with infrequent rest, beware of injuries of YanZi, if the true Food meets Owl God, HanXin's misfortune is unavoidable, when this case is not serious, it denotes a lazy and careless spirit, if this is serious, denotes distorted facial features.
Trey: YanZi or YanHui was the favorite student of Confucius who died at a young age of 32. HanXin was a general under LiuBang who won the war for his king but was (falsely) charged with treason and executed by LiuBang's wife Empress Lu.
《万祺赋》云：枭神见官煞，多成多败，偏印遇财曜，反辱为荣，身旺为贵，身弱乃常，有伤官而平生丰润，值食神则处世伶仃。
The Odes of WanQi says: Owl God seeing Officer and Devil, many successes and failures, Indirect Seal meeting Wealth star, turns dishonor into glory, a weak self is ordinary, with Hurting Officer one will enjoy abundance in his life, if it is Food God then one would be alone and helpless in his society.
古诗云：印星偏者是枭神，柱内最喜见财星，身旺遇此方为福，身衰枭旺更无情。
Old poem says: For the Indirect Seal Star is the Owl God, within the pillars Wealth stars are favorable, with strong Self seeing this as blessings, with weak Self and prosperous Owl is not affectionate.
如丙戌、丙申、甲戌、壬申，甲见丙食，又见壬倒食，甲生申月受煞制无气，二丙窃气，壬水制丙，煞得施行，故无名利。
Like
Ren Jia Bing Bing
Shen Xu Shen Xu
Jia sees Bing a Food and also Ren as Pouring Food, Jia being born in the month of Shen is restrained by Devil and thus have no Qi, the 2 Bings steal Qi, Ren water counters Bing, Devil gets to act as it wishes, thus (the subject has) no reputation nor benefits.
又如壬申、壬子、甲戌、丙寅，会印归禄，水精火神之妙，木火通明之象。
Also
Bing Jia Ren Ren
Yin Xu Zi Shen
Meets Seal (Seal form a frame) and returned 'Lu' (Lu in hour pillar), it's wonderful that water is spirited and fire is godly, the image of wood and fire brightly lit.
Trey: Little subtleties can change a chart drastically
又，己未、壬申、甲子、丙寅，以煞化印，归禄得秀，木火通明，水木清奇。
Also,
Bing Jia Ren Ji
Yin Zi Shen Wei
With Devil transformed by Seal, with Returned 'Lu' (Fortune God in hour pillar) (this DM) gets elegant, wood and fire brightly lit, water and wood clear and wonderful.
二命俱大贵。
These 2 lives are greatly noble.
前忌倒食，逢制合反贵，切不可一见倒食，便以凶论。
The first one fears Pouring Food, but meeting restraint or combination it will turn to be noble, one must not analyze the chart as inauspicious upon seeing Pouring Food.
Trey: YanZi or YanHui was the favorite student of Confucius who died at a young age of 32. HanXin was a general under LiuBang who won the war for his king but was (falsely) charged with treason and executed by LiuBang's wife Empress Lu.
《万祺赋》云：枭神见官煞，多成多败，偏印遇财曜，反辱为荣，身旺为贵，身弱乃常，有伤官而平生丰润，值食神则处世伶仃。
The Odes of WanQi says: Owl God seeing Officer and Devil, many successes and failures, Indirect Seal meeting Wealth star, turns dishonor into glory, a weak self is ordinary, with Hurting Officer one will enjoy abundance in his life, if it is Food God then one would be alone and helpless in his society.
古诗云：印星偏者是枭神，柱内最喜见财星，身旺遇此方为福，身衰枭旺更无情。
Old poem says: For the Indirect Seal Star is the Owl God, within the pillars Wealth stars are favorable, with strong Self seeing this as blessings, with weak Self and prosperous Owl is not affectionate.
如丙戌、丙申、甲戌、壬申，甲见丙食，又见壬倒食，甲生申月受煞制无气，二丙窃气，壬水制丙，煞得施行，故无名利。
Like
Ren Jia Bing Bing
Shen Xu Shen Xu
Jia sees Bing a Food and also Ren as Pouring Food, Jia being born in the month of Shen is restrained by Devil and thus have no Qi, the 2 Bings steal Qi, Ren water counters Bing, Devil gets to act as it wishes, thus (the subject has) no reputation nor benefits.
又如壬申、壬子、甲戌、丙寅，会印归禄，水精火神之妙，木火通明之象。
Also
Bing Jia Ren Ren
Yin Xu Zi Shen
Meets Seal (Seal form a frame) and returned 'Lu' (Lu in hour pillar), it's wonderful that water is spirited and fire is godly, the image of wood and fire brightly lit.
Trey: Little subtleties can change a chart drastically
又，己未、壬申、甲子、丙寅，以煞化印，归禄得秀，木火通明，水木清奇。
Also,
Bing Jia Ren Ji
Yin Zi Shen Wei
With Devil transformed by Seal, with Returned 'Lu' (Fortune God in hour pillar) (this DM) gets elegant, wood and fire brightly lit, water and wood clear and wonderful.
二命俱大贵。
These 2 lives are greatly noble.
前忌倒食，逢制合反贵，切不可一见倒食，便以凶论。
The first one fears Pouring Food, but meeting restraint or combination it will turn to be noble, one must not analyze the chart as inauspicious upon seeing Pouring Food.
Hi Trey,
ReplyDeleteIn the above post
Ren Jia Bing Bing
Shen Xu Shen Xu
Jia sees Bing a Food and also Ren as Pouring Food, Jia being born in the month of Shen is restrained by Devil and thus have no Qi, the 2 Bings steal Qi, Ren water counters Bing, Devil gets to act as it wishes, thus (the subject has) no reputation nor benefits.
** Chart is originally a 7k structure with Bing Food controlling devil. Unfortunately, Ren is in hour stem and has rooting in Shen hence countered Bing turning the chart inauspicious as Owl stealing food. However, I would think that this is true if DM is strong. When DM is weak as in the chart, owl will give support to the DM so I do not understand why this is bad. If the chart do not have Ren protruding in hour stem, the structure will be Food controlling devil but as DM is weak, Food will deplete the qi of DM as well so the chart will really be bad.
I have read that sometimes, Food can be discard when there is Seal and Devil. Can the above chart discard Food and be used as a seal and 7k mutually engendering structure?
Bing Jia Ren Ji
Yin Zi Shen Wei
With Devil transformed by Seal, with Returned 'Lu' (Fortune God in hour pillar) (this DM) gets elegant, wood and fire brightly lit, water and wood clear and wonderful.
** Shouldn’t the chart be read as Ren stem on month would be countered by Ji stem on year. The structure should still be 7K but Bing EG being free from treat of Ren can control the 7K hence auspicious chart.
Hi joe,
DeleteFirst case:
Unlike Seal that favors weak DM, the owl favors strong DM, The owl cannot give support to a weak DM:
古诗云：印星偏者是枭神，柱内最喜见财星，身旺遇此方为福，身衰枭旺更无情。
Old poem says: For the Indirect Seal Star is the Owl God, within the pillars Wealth stars are favorable, with strong Self seeing this as blessings, with weak Self and prosperous Owl is not affectionate.
Without (protruding) Wealth and being a weak DM, Owl gets inauspicious. It will counter food and free 7K. Thus a broken structure.
Case 2:
The structure has changed from 7K to Indirect Seal structure when Shen is combined with Zi forming a water frame. Hence 7K lost its malevolence. And yes, Ji Wealth counters Ren and that is auspicious because the owl becomes Indirect Seal and Bing is free from the threat of Ren.
With the DM and Food free from threat from 7K and Owl, this chart takes the image of 'wood and fire brightly lit' as both Jia and Bing are rooted in Yin. Hence auspicious chart.
I also sometimes have problems with the examples. But things get clearer as I read more and more. But one thing is for sure, we cannot apply the contemporary 'balance' BaZi to SMTH and the likes.
Happy reading
Hi Trey,
DeleteThks for your reply. It does get confusing but it is also gets more interesting !
In the topic under
Changes (of Useful God) that does not change the original structure,
丙生寅月，午戌会劫，而又或透甲，或透壬，则仍为印而格不破。
Bing born in Yin month, Wu and Xu meets (transforms the structure) to Rob, and when Jia protrudes or Ren protrudes, the structure would still be the Seal (structure) and it is not broken.
丙生申月，逢壬化煞，而又透戊，则食神能制煞生财，仍为财格，不失富贵。
Bing born in Shen Month, meeting Ren transform (the structure) to Devil, a protruding Wu means the Food can control the Devil and engender Wealth, that is still a Wealth structure, (the structure)does not lose its wealthiness and nobility.
From the above comments, I felt that Ji would have stopped the structure from changing from 7k to seal.
Hi Joe,
DeleteI have completely forgotten about those examples until you brought it up. Nice one.
For the Bing born in Yin month, is originally a Seal structure, the fire frame would change it into Rob structure, but if Jia (Indirect Seal) protrude or Ren (7K) protrude then it would revert back to a Seal structure.
I think there's a few questions that we need to think about with this example
What if Gui protrudes instead of Ren? Will Gui revert the structure back to Seal structure?
My opinion is that the 3 combination frame has no polarity, so the HS will determine the polarity of the frame. In this case, the frame would likely be another Yang Fire, thus the Rob structure (YueJie).
Ren is the 7K of Bing, thus it counters away the Rob frame, reverting the structure to Seal.
If Gui protrudes instead of Ren, will it be the same?
Let's look at the second example:
Bing born in Shen, seeing Ren would change the structure to 7K, but with protruding Wu, Food God would counter 7K.
Wu is the 7K for Ren, thus it would counter away Ren and revert the structure back to Wealth.
What happens if Ji protrudes instead of Wu?
These 2 examples uses the 7K of the changed UG to revert the structure back to the original UG.
So regarding your statement that Ji would stop the structure from changing from 7K to Seal, I really cannot tell with absolute certainty what would be the outcome.
Let's look from other aspects:
1. When 7K is in the chart, it should be analyzed before anything else.
无言独步 WuYanDuBu: 有杀现论杀, 无杀方论用. If 7K is present, analyze 7K first, if there's no 7K, then UG can be analyzed.
So in a way 7K takes precedence over UG.
Bing Jia Ren Ji
Yin Zi Shen Wei
SMTH first said 以煞化印, with Devil transformed to Seal, so I interpret this as the structure changed from Devil to Seal, seeing that Shen + Zi combines to water and Ren protruding on top.
Maybe I was wrong by saying the structure changed. Maybe it does not change. But Devil is already changed to Indirect Seal by combination and protrusion.
Indirect Seal has a tendency to steal Food, unless DM is strong orWealth is present. So, with Ji present, Indirect Seal is prevented from stealing Food.
If you look at it from another way which is similar to yours, structure is 7K, and 7K is suppressed by Food. That is a successful structure. But Ren would steal Food and break the structure, Ji would act as the cure to prevent Ren from stealing Food. Thus saving the structure.
From WuYanDuBu again: 有病方为贵, 无伤不是奇.
With sickness and remedy it is noble, without injury it is not a wonder.
Then we see the chart is full of sickness, i.e 7K countering DM and Owl stealing Food, and it has all the remedies. So this must be a good chart.
With both ways of analyzing, we will still get to the same conclusion that this is a good chart.
Personally, I think as long as UG(s) are used in the correct ways, it is still a good chart.
This is really an interesting example. I wonder if there are charts which we cannot arrive at the same conclusion from should we analyze from different perspective.
Thanks again for bringing this up.
Hi Trey!
ReplyDeleteIt's Talib from five arts. Very interesting article on indirect deal. I have the indirect seal snatching food. However, food sits on wealth. Does it count as remedy? Also, do you think the structure of the chart is wealth or officer?
Geng Ji Xin Ding
Wu Si Hai Mao
Thanks.
hello trey, can you help me distinguish, if i have the seal or ribbon structure in my chart :)
ReplyDeletewu wu geng wu
wu zi shen yin