Tuesday, December 2, 2014

BaZi: Royalties - Prince Charles of Wales


I thought I'd just finish with the royalties. I'm very lazy to translate lately. I had suddenly thought about 泄漏天机 'leaking the mechanism of Heaven' as we say in Chinese. Telling people stuff that are supposedly 'secrets' of Heaven. I'm hesitating, should I keep on translating? There's really nothing for me in return. Hmmmm....

Back to the topic.

亥月借取伤官格。Hai month borrows Hurting Officers structure.

Gui water born in Hai. A borrowed Hurting Officer structure.

Wu Earth is on the Year HS. This is a case of 伤官见官. Hurting Officer seeing Officer. Supposedly inauspicious. But not really.

There are 3 elements Hurting Officer that is auspicious to see Officer.

The classics says:



Hurting Officer Fire and Earth has to Hurt completely.


Metal Water Hurting Officer wants to meet Officer.


Wood Fire seeing Officer, Officer must be prosperous.


Earth Metal Officer is discarded then one would become Officer (holds a government Office)


Only Metal Wood Hurting Officer structure,


That when Wealth and Officer are both seen, that is really favorable.

SMTH says:


Water has Wood as Hurt(ing Officer), has Earth as Officer, even though Wood counters Earth, if Water is rampant, Wood floats, and without Earth to stop (the Water), it is difficult (for Wood) to survive, furthermore, Wood needs to have Earth to grow.

The Prince's chart has rampant water and prosperous wood. That makes the Wu earth on the Year Pillar favorable. The only missing element is Fire, now that he's going through the LPs of Fire, it is his time. 


  1. Hi trey,

    I don't know Chinese alphabets, but for the translated verse, I have long heard words which could be translated as "disclose heaven's secret" in my society.... I think it is the same belief...

    Re your hesitation in further translating, I then would like to give opinion that..
    ...for the record, it would be up to your discretion as there are pros and cons even in case the belief is a true story...
    ...off the record, please keep on doing it, otherwise we will be short of another good Bazi knowledge source... :) (lol)

    Btw, for the prince's chart, it seems that he is strong Water DM without Metal-Resource, so Earth is needed... I wonder if there is HS of metal, just only one in any pillar, I am not sure whether Earth is still useful, or not...



    1. Hi DW,

      The more traditional way does not take the strength of DM as the basis for analysis. Rather, we base our analysis from the Month EB. In this case is Jia Hurting Officer inside Hai, as Ren in Hai does not work for a water DM.

      Besides, Hai-Mao forms a Wood frame and establish the chart as a Hurting Officer structure. As the DM is Water and Hurting Officer is Wood. The chart is regarded as Water-Wood Hurting Officer structure and is analyzed accordingly.

      Should there be a Metal in the HS, it would become a Hurting Officer adorns with Seal (HOawS) structure like his son Prince William.

      A high grade HOawS structure requires strong and protruding HO, weak DM and strongly rooted Seal.

      As DM is strong, Hurting Officer protruding and Seal rootless, this structure becomes of a lesser grade, Prince Charles will not be who he is.


    2. Hi trey,

      Thank you for your help. May I have a bit more discussion about this prince's chart.

      To affirm my understanding, Jia-Wood is used and becomes dominant as being DHHS in the period of his birth month, isn't it? However, re Hai-Mao Ban-He, I am not sure whether combination could take place or not because there are 2 Hai being adjacent side-by-side to only one Mao. Would there be a case like "2 Hai struggle to combine with one Mao" which causes not combination?

      BTW, in case Wood is dominant, can Wu-Earth in Year HS and Gui-Water in Month HS combine and transform into Fire?

      Re chart structures, well, I could stkll not follow you at this point... :)


    3. Jia-Wood is used and becomes dominant as being DHHS in the period of his birth month, isn't it?

      Yes it is, according to the system used by bazi-calculator, which I believe is based on SMTH version's of Month Command, Jia wood is the dominant element in Hai. In classical term, it is called the Month Command or the YongShen (The god in charge, or the misnomer Useful God)

      However, re Hai-Mao Ban-He, I am not sure whether combination could take place or not because there are 2 Hai being adjacent side-by-side to only one Mao. Would there be a case like "2 Hai struggle to combine with one Mao" which causes not combination?

      AFAIK, jealousy or competing combination is part of the HS interaction. I have not known that it is applied to the earthly triple combo.

      HS combination eg Jia + Ji is pairing of Yin and Yang. Jia is the husband and Ji is the wife. If there is Wu earth in between Jia and Ji then pairing cannot happen. Ji would be jealous of Wu (mistress / concubine) and does not want to combine with Jia. That is called jealousy combination. Again that is because Jia is husband and the Ji is wife.

      For earthly triple combo, the above reasoning cannot be similarly applied.
      An elemental frame represents a complete birth cycle of the element.

      An elemental frame is made of a ChangSheng (Birth) stage, a DiWang (Prosper) stage and a Mu (Storage) stage.

      To birth is to produce, to prosper is to be successful, to store is to harvest.

      This is like growing grains in the field. We sow the grain, the grain grows (ChangSheng) and prospers (DiWang) and we harvest and store the grain (Mu).

      The concept of jealousy combination is fundamentally inapplicable to EB elemental frame.

      BTW, in case Wood is dominant, can Wu-Earth in Year HS and Gui-Water in Month HS combine and transform into Fire?

      I don't think so, Fire is extinct in Hai.

      Regarding chart structure, that is the fundamental of classical bazi. You should read the Useful God chapters again and again until you get the hang of it. It does take a while, maybe a few weeks to a few months. But once you get the hang of it, every article in this blog will begin to make sense. Even the cryptic verses in the old text will no longer be a mystery to you if you can read Chinese.

      Good Luck

    4. Hi trey,

      Thank you so much for your help.

      That's very kind of you!!

      It would certainly take much more time for me to catch up even just the Useful God topic in your blog. Not to mention about the remaining parts. At this point, I could just finish only few articles of the topic...

      Maybe next year..... :)


    5. Hi trey,

      May I ask another question which at first I don't know where to put it?

      It's about DHHS. I would borrow the prince's chart as an example.

      In my previous reply, I thought if Wood rules or becomes dominant in this month, Wu-Gui combination may possibly transform into Fire, which you already explained about its impossibility based on month of Hai.

      So may I ask a blunt question that re the DHHS of Wood in his Hai-Pig month of Water, what does it mean anything? How can we use the dominant position of element, if combination and transformation concept still lie with the month, not the DHHS of the month?

      If answer to this is already in somewhere of your blog, you may just give a hint. I can look after it myself... :)


    6. Hi decha_woo

      The dominant HHS is used as the basis for analysis in classical BaZi. For example in the prince's chart, Jia wood is the DHHS in the month EB. So this becomes a Hurting Officer structure. There are many names for this entity such as the Month Command, Yueling, the God in charge or the often misconstrued - Useful God (not the favorable element) - Hurting Officer.

      Combination and transformation depends on the Qi of that element in a certain month, for example in the month of Hai, Fire is under Jue 绝 (extinct), Water is under LinGuan 临官 (Arriving Officer), Wood is under ChangSheng 长生 (Birth). When Fire is extinct. It means that fire is completely without Qi.

      The only possible transformation from the combination between Wu and Gui is water because water is prosperous. This is sometimes called 反化, inverted transformation.

      甲己化土從木,Jia Ji transform to Earth follow Wood
      乙庚化金從火,Yi Geng transform to Metal follow Fire
      戊癸化火從水,Wu Gui transform to Fire follow Water
      丁壬化木從火,Ding Ren transform to Wood follow Fire
      丙辛化水從火。Bing Xin transform to Water follow Fire

      To understand the concept of Month Command or Month Decree (which is DHHS of the month EB, often called Useful God in this blog), you have to first read this chapter:


    7. Hi trey,

      Thank for your suggestion.

      Based on your second paragraph, may I further conclude that in Hai-Pig month, Water is under LinGuan and Wood is under ChangSheng no matter what (either Wood or Water) becomes DHHS? Right?


  2. Hi Trey,

    I also hope that you will continue to translate as I am sure many others like me would have learn so much from your blog.

    On the Prince, is there a reason why Ren in Hai does not work for water DM ?

    1. Hi Joe,

      Rob Wealth really does nothing other than Robbing the Wealth stars. Also, RW and Parallels by themselves don't give anything to the DM. We call that 'unusable'. Meaning they cannot be used to bring prosperity to the DM. If there's malevolent deities in the chart, e.g 7K RW can fight the 7K together with the DM. Then it's considered auspicious.

      However in Prince's chart, the God that is taking charge is Jia Wood. So Ren takes a back seat and allow Jia to rule (command) the chart. That is what I meant when I say Ren does not work for the Water DM.

      For most of the malevolent Useful Gods, e.g 7K, HO, the Owl, Rob Wealth and parallels are usually seen as beneficial.

      I think I'd continue to translate. Now that this blog is private, somehow I feel less stressed. I used to feel like something was wrong when this blog was public. Like something bad would happen to me. Now I feel free.


  3. Hi Trey,

    Thanks for your clarification and I referred back to your previous blogs under Useful god and chart Structure which highlighted the point.
    “When the month branch is of the same element as the DM, it cannot be used, so 'use' has to be search from somewhere else, it could be Wealth, Officer, Devil or Food, look at which is protruding or which has meetings in the branches”.

    In the chart below, do we use the protruding Yi Seal as the UG or the half water formation in branch as the UG? I am of the opinion that it should be water Officer since it is stronger than the Yi seal but as branch combo has no polarity, how do we determine if it is Devil or Officer since there is no protruding water? .

    Bing bing Yi Ding
    Shen Zi Si Wei

    Also, i am gald that you feel more comfortable now.

    1. This bazi average at most due to the many robbers. He need a 7K penetrating to control them. The useful god is DO but its ain't good enough when the branch has HO.

  4. Hi Joe,

    I agree with you that water should be used. Regarding the polarity, I was gonna say Gui officer as Shen Zi combines to Gui water as Zi is where water is prosperous. But then I read SMTH and realized it combines to 7K. Because Ren is ChangSheng in Shen, which is the birth hour. When the month EB has nothing to use, we can always use the God in command in Hour, which comes second after Month Command.


    Bing Day Bing Shen hour, Wealth prosperous and DM weak, Bing sees Geng as Wealth, Ren as Devil, in Shen, Geng is prosperous and Ren is at birth (ChangSheng), Bing fire is without Qi, so the Wealth should be divided or robbed by the parallels.

    If it is not connected to a month where DM is prosperous, then the subject is lowly; if there's something to rely or rescue, and (DM) connects to a prosperous month, and LP goes o the same, noble.

    Whose chart is this?

  5. Prince yong shen is Wood & Fire. His life is a very enjoyable one with Eating God on day EB. As for status he don't have fate, he will not be King for long.

    zheng guan protrude cannot be follower. It protects wealth when wealth protrude.

    wealth on EB, outputs will protect. The whole life 荣华富贵.

    Such a bazi playboy image when young, last heard he divorce in 1996 when harm formation on day EB.

  6. Hi Trey,

    This chart belongs to a friend of mine who despite being highly qualified, has not been very successful in career.

    The last paragraph which says, connect to a month where DM is prosperous and will be noble. Being a Bing DM, wouldn’t prosperous months be the summer months of Si and Wu?

  7. Hi Joe,

    Yes Fire is prosperous in the month of Si and Wu. Unfortunately the fire LP came too early.

    If it is not connected to a month where DM is prosperous, then the subject is lowly; if there's something to rely or rescue, and (DM) connects to a prosperous month and LP goes (to) the same, noble.

  8. Hi Trey,

    I came across this chart on a website. Apparently very successful lady in HK in terms of career and wealth and is still successful. Her most successful luck pillar was Bing Shen and Ding You and the worst seemed to be when she was younger during the Yi Wei pillar.

    Ren Ren Ren Xin
    Zi Chen Chen Chou

    I am still struggling with charts with parallel / Rob wealth structure so please advise if my assessment below is on the right track.

    1. Half water transformation to Parallel cannot be used hence I believe it is a 7K and Seal structure?
    2. Yi Wei pillar clash release DO which then mixed with 7k – inauspicious.
    3. I am not sure about the Bing Shen pillar which seemed very good for the DM. During Geng Chen year, she became MD of company. Bing Xin HS combined and there was a water formation on the branch. I can only think of Seal being lost during the bing Xin combination was compensated by strong Parallel formation protecting against the 7k during Geng Chen?
    4. The following year, Xin Si year she became CEO of the company, Seal was restored with the half metal formation?
    5. Also, was the Xin in the natal chart released when Xin on the year combined with Bing or will there still be a fight to combine with all 3 stars having no impact on the chart?
    6. Ding You luck pillar was still good in terms of wealth and career. Ding combining with Ren, saving Xin seal and the half metal formation.
    7. Also, Ding Ren could not produce wood due to the fight to combine?

    1. Hi Joe,

      Is this possibly a special structure.

      It could be the 'GuiKang' or 'Ren riding on dragon's back'. I am not sure if this chart can be analyzed as a common structure.


  9. hi Trey,

    I do not know much about special stuctures apart from the Follow charts. how does a Gui Kang and Ren riding on dragon's back look like ?

  10. Kui Gang (sorry wrong PinYin) is a chart made of many (more than one) of these pillars 庚辰、壬辰、戊戌、庚戌

    Geng Chen
    Ren Chen
    Wu Xu
    Geng Xu

    Ren riding on Dragon's back structure is made of many Ren Chen pillars with some or none of Ren Yin pillars.

    I'll translate those when I have time, :)


  11. Hi Trey,

    Thanks. i will look forward to learning more about these special structures. thks.

  12. Trey,

    I want to thank you for your translations, it greatly helps someone like myself who cannot read very well, but have a lot of interest in this science.

    I think the idea of 泄漏天机 is superstitious at its core and one major reason scientific progress stalled in ancient China. To me, BaZi is an empirical science that attempted to document observations regarding individuals and how they behaved and how their lives transpired. Unfortunately, this science wasn't documented well, quite often being written in cryptic language or ambiguous language (unlike the academic papers of present times). Perhaps the authors themselves were thinking what you were thinking, 泄漏天机.

    The problem with 泄漏天机 is that trying to understand how natural phenomenon in of itself becomes heretical, even forbidden, since you were discovering something no one should know. How can the pursuit and sharing of knowledge regarding nature be a bad thing? Nature is fascinating, mystical perhaps, but that's all the more reason to explore and understand it. Relegating it to some sacred mystical construct... isn't what science is about. I guess this is the power of Chinese culture even after so many years.

    Just my thoughts on this, and hope you continue to translate.

  13. Hi day61

    I will continue to translate but it wouldn't be as fast as I want to.

    Why Chinese scientific progress stalled?

    That's a subject of great interest among historians. China was richest in 1100 but it couldn't keep up with the rest of the world after 1500.

  14. 土金官去反成官,

    Earth Metal Officer is discarded then one would become Officer (holds a government Office)

    I don't understand this statement.
    It says Earth DM discard metal, freeing the wood will be government officer or the other way round?

    1. From what i understand Earth DM's Output Star is extra harmful to Officer.

  15. 土金官去反成官
    Earth Metal Officer is discarded then one would become Officer (holds a government Office)

    Fuzzy translation

    土 金 官去 反成官
    Earth (DM) with Metal HO, discarding Wood Officer will in turn become (government) Officer

    Hope this helps