Monday, November 3, 2014

BaZi: SMTH 官煞去留杂论 'Mixed Authorities' 7K + DO in a chart.

When DO is used in a BaZi chart, 7K is unfavorable. Likewise, when 7K is used in a chart, DO is naturally unfavorable. If DO and 7K are both present in the chart, it's a condition called 官杀混杂 (Officer and Devil mixed). Something I term 'Mixed Authorities'

Mixed Authorities is a form of sickness 病 for a BaZi, thus it requires a remedy '方'.


<XiJiPian> says: For the likes of Mixed Authorities, it could discard Officer and save 7K and it could also get rid of 7K and save Officer.


That is talking about having DO and 7K in a BaZi chart, like seeing DO on Month and seeing 7K on hour, or seeing 7K on Month and seeing DO on hour, or seeing them repeatedly in the four pillars, if there's an entity that can discard DO and save 7K, it should be discussed as Indirect Officer, if there's an entity that can discard 7K and save DO, it should be discussed as Direct Officer.


When looking at the process of discarding and saving, one should see how heavy or light (strong or weak) the DO and 7K are, the ones that protrudes in the HS can be easily discarded, but the one hidden inside Month EB is difficult to be discarded, it requires Hurting Officer or Food God to be many and strong, only that it can be done.


The 5 Yang Daymasters with Food God, it can discard the Devil and save the Officer


The 5 Yang Daymasters with Hurting Officer can discard Officer but cannot save the Devil, unless YangRen is present, with YangRen combined with the Devil, only the Devil can be saved.


For example, a DM Jia,

Jia uses Xin as Officer, Geng as Devil, if Officer is heavy and Devil is light, having on Bing (Food), it would counter Geng metal away and combine with Xin, this is called 'discard Devil and save Officer', it is affectionate and thus noble;


If Devil is heavy and Officer is light, seeing Ding fire Hurting Officer, it would counter away Xin metal, also if Yi YangRen is present, it would combine with Geng, this is called 'Discard the Officer and save the Devil', it is affectionate and thus noble.


The 5 Yin DayMasters with Food God, it can discard Devil but cannot save Officer but the DM itself can save the Officer,


The 5 Yin DayMasters with Hurting Officer, it can discard the Officer and it can also save the Devil.


Like a Yi DayMaster,

With Geng as the Officer and Xin as Devil, if Officer is heavy and Devil is light, having one Ding Food God will counter away Xin Devil, and Yi itself will combine with Geng, this is called 'discard Devil and save Officer, it is affectionate and thus noble;


If Devil is heavy and Officer is light, having one Bing Fire Hurting Officer, it would counter away Geng Metal and combine with Xin Metal, this is called 'Discard Officer and save Devil', it is affectionate and thus noble.


<YuanLiFu> says: Discard Devil and save Officer is analyzed as Noble, discard Officer and save Devil denotes authority.


It is also said: when DO and 7K see each other, to combine 7K would be noble, so it is said.


There are 2 kinds of combining Devil, combination to go and combination to come, combination to come is to discard Officer and save Devil, combination to go is to discard Devil and save Officer

I'll just stop here, the rest of the chapter talks about more or less the same thing.


  1. Hi trey,

    I have heard and read somewhere a rule like, when there is case of mixed DO and 7K, if DM is so weak to a level, both DO and 7K will not do any harm to DM but mutually help make it noble.... In such a case, it is like there is no need to discard one and save the other....and both DO and 7K could be strong....

    Is there such a rule, or does I just get it wrong myself...??


    Ps. I, at first, think it is just a common rule of special chart of extremely weak DM which simply needs to be weakened further....But, it is told like if DM is not weak enough (don't know how to weigh "enough weakness" ), the mixture of strong DO and strong 7K could bring catastrophe to the chart owner....

    1. Hi DW,

      I think you are talking about a follower structure.

      That is true, if DM is really weak without any Qi, without any engendering Qi, without support, and if the authorities get a frame (triple combo) and protrude in HS, DM will leave its nature to follow the authority. It's like a person so weak but he has to go against a gang of villains. He would choose to join the gang so he wont have to fight them.

      We call that 弃命从煞, abandon life to follow Devil. It's most commonly called Follow Authority structure.

      If DM is weak, having little Qi, DM cannot leave its nature. In this case, the mixed authorities become very inauspicious.


  2. Hi Trey,

    I have the following chart which I like opinion on.

    The chart belongs to Marion Jones, a famous US athlete who won 4 gold medals in the 2000 Olympics and was a multi millionaire at that time. She was going through her Wu Zi LP then. From 2004 after she entered the Ji Chou LP, things started to go downhill for her and by 2007, she was declared bankrupt and found guilty of using performance enhancing drugs. Note that there has always been speculations that she uses drugs throughout her career but she was not caught until about 2006 and 2007.

    Ren Xin Bing Yi
    Chen Mao Xu Mao

    1. Her chart has DO see HO on stem but I recall water HO is ok to see DO although the examples I have read so far are related to metal born in winter where fire is needed to prevent water from freezing. What is your thoughts on this?
    2. I also think that this chart has a DO & 7k mix as there is a 7k in the branch even though it is in storage. Also, the 7k could be strengthen by the Mao Xu combination. Your thoughts?
    3. She seemed to be successful during the Wu Zi period. This period has a half water combo while Wu is prevented from hurting Ren by Yi in the year stem. As she was successful then, it looks like water is the useful element.
    4. If the assumption of DO & 7k mix is correct, then it looks like the Ren HO is controlling both the DO and 7k at the same time. I suppose although DO is lost but it may be better than an uncontrolled DO & 7k. Is this possible? By the way, both her marriages created more problems than good for her so her officer star does not look auspicious for her.
    5. however, if point 1 to 4 on water being useful make sense, then the problem will be year 2000 Geng Chen year in Wu Zi luck pillar when she became very famous during the Olympic Games. Geng would combine with Yi allowing Wu in the LP to control Ren and the half water combo. How would this be auspicious? The only reason I could think of is HO likes seal when DM is weak. But I thought this principle is applicable only when HO is the month commander. What are your thoughts on this Geng Chen year?
    6. She entered Ji Chou, indirect seal luck pillar in 2003 and it was a declining stage for her. The Ji on stem may not affect her Ren due to Yi on the year stem but there is no longer any water combo in the branch. I believe when HO is light, it may not be able to have effect on the stars it is supposed to control esp when they are in the branch, and in this case the heavy officer stars.
    7. Her worst year must be 2007, Ding Hai when she became broke and confessed to using drugs. Ren HO was combined away. Half combo of wood would have strengthen the officer stars and together with DO & 7k mixed surfacing, her chart broke. What are your thoughts on this?

    1. Hi Joe,

      1. As I recall, there are 3 Hurting Officers that can use Officer, Metal born in winter is the most favorable. I don't remember the other 2, have to go look through the notes.

      2. I think Fire protrudes as Direct Officer, in this case even the combination would work to support the DO.

      3. From your explanation, I think this chart could also be a transformation Qi chart. Although month commands disallow the transformation, Hour Pillar fully supports the transformation. Having Chen as EB and Ren protruding in HS. This fits the saying 逢龙则化 meeting dragon will transform.

      Besides, according to SMTH, as long as the hour pillar allows the transformation, it can happen without the month EB support

  3. ^_^ Hi I'm new here.. Nice to meet you all..

    Can you all please help to understand my chart? Trey suggested to post in here to discuss together.
    IMHO I think there are 3 possibility:
    - DO structure with GuanSa HunZa case with hour Zi hidden stem is pure 7K.
    - Day Noble Ding You born at night structure, but if month failed to establish a structure.
    - and possibility of transformation chart when month command is Wood.

    Dob 15 April 1976 LAT 00:17 AM




    Can you spare some time to discuss this structure? Love to hear your thought.