Monday, March 4, 2013

BaZi: 用神 - 逆用 'Against' Use

Useful God, against way 逆用 and chart structures

Continue from the previous post, which is about the 'follow way, this post is about the 'against' way of using the Useful God.

Again, from ZPZQ


Not-benevolent and used in an 'against' way is like
7th Devil likes to be controlled by Food, dreads supports and help from Wealth and Seal <-- 7K countered by Food God structure

Hurting Officer likes to be controlled by Seal, <-- HO adorned with Seal structure

Engendering wealth and transforming itself, HO engendering Wealth structure

Yang Ren likes to be controlled by Officer and Devil, dreads the total absence of Officer and Devil <-- Officer or Devil controlling Blade structure 官煞制刃 

Robbing Month likes to be controlled by penetrating Officer, <-- Robbing Month using Officer structure 月劫用官

Using Wealth and penetrating Food to transform Rob. <-- Robbing month using Wealth structure. 月劫用财

From these texts, we can learn that determining the Useful God is important, and how to use the Useful God is equally important. Benevolent Useful Gods should be used in the 'follow' way and not benevolent Useful Gods should be used in the 'against' way. These concepts are fundamental for analyzing a BaZi chart base on traditional ZiPing method. Analyzing BaZi is a little more complicated than the popular notion of 'a weak DM should be supported and a strong DM should be exhausted'.It does not really work that way. 

The chart structures discussed are not exhaustible, there are many more structures that involve more than one way of using the Useful Gods. 


  1. Hi Trey,

    I noticed that Yang Ren see 7k is auspicious but robbing month prefers officer but if it sees 7k, the 7k should be controlled to be auspicious. Tony Blair the former PM of UK has a robbing structure that sees 7k. Do you think it is correct to say that the Wu earth in Si is in Lin guan stage hence strong enough to control the Gui 7k ?

    Gui Ding Ding Gui
    Mao Si Si Si

    Tony Blair rise in his political career is in the Gui Chou and Ren Zi luck pillars. My understanding is officer should not be repeated. But there are 2 gui 7k in the natal chart and another gui in the LP. So is the point about officer should not repeat applicable only to Direct Officer and not indirect officer ?

    1. Hi Joe,

      I think you are right. Ji Earth is already present in Month EB. Furthermore, 7K is rootless while DM and Food are both prosperous. So, according to the concept of balance, 7K should be supported for the chart to excel.

      I have not seen anywhere in literature that says 7K cannot be repeated, so I guess repeating officer is only applied to Direct Officer and not Indirect Officer.

      Also, a Ding Si DM with 3 Si EBs fall under a certain special structure called 倒冲格. The 3 Si EBs clashed out an obscured Hai which acts as Officer. And the presence of obscured Hai is further strengthen by the presence of Mao in hour EB (because Hai can combine with Mao). Hence, I believe this is another case of 'Discarding 7K and saving Officer'.

      I'll translate that chapter soon as it's just a short one.